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Tuesday, April 17, 2007

NO WINDOW JUMPING

A sad thing happened this week. Thirty-two people were mindlessly murdered by a ruthless gunman at Virginia Tech University, but there is something even more troubling than that heinous crime: America showed her lack of self-sacrificing men.

A clarion call for sacrificial courage was sounded, but it wasn't brave young men who answered the cry. It was an old man who gave his life. In a college campus filled with strong, strapping young men in the prime of their lives, the job of self-sacrifice fell to a 77 year-old Israeli professor. Feminism has succeeded in part: America has raised some wimpy men.

While reflecting upon this tragedy, my heart goes out to the families who lost loved ones in the senseless shootings at Virginia Tech. The pain of this sudden loss must be heart-rending. I mourn for the families of those who perished, I grieve because so many American men have forgotten their heritage of self-sacrifice, and I give thanks knowing that the men in my family would have laid down their lives in protection of others. There would be no window jumping for them.

~Cara

41 Comments:

Blogger Kim C. said...

Well said, Cara. A sobering commentary on the state of our nation, and words of love, honor and respect to the men of your family.

1:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sure that the families of Kevin Sterne and the other students who also held doors shut against the gunman http://www.roanoke.com/vtshootingaccounts/wb/113505 would be seriously offended by your smug and ill-informed post.

Hilary.

3:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isn't it funny how people can look at things with such different views. I saw men.. police men, swat team men, real men charging in there risking their lives for those students. I saw EMT's who aided and saved lives. I saw students ( men and women) who boldly went to the assistance of those who jumped while risking their own lives.

I saw an RA..a young male who stepped in to protect a female resident and he lost his life in the process.

I am sure there are MANY untold stories of selfless acts that we will never know.

I saw many men and women who are heroes.

How can you judge whjat those poor people suffered through?

I am stunned by your post, and I pray not one family member comes reads these words.

4:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your "smugness" thinly veiled as "raising godly young men" saddens me and I am certain it saddens our Lord and Savior.

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I came here from Kim C's blog.

I disagree with you though. The thought never crossed my mind to put any men that lived through in a "wimpy" category.

First, you don't know what happened in the classroom where the professor saved the students. Maybe he was the only one in a position to do it. Maybe it was God's plan all along for him to die a hero at an old age- so younger people could live and carry on.

Second, it is not like there weren't any young men helping others. Like the poster above said the EMTs, fire, and police were there carrying victims out.

If there were any "wimpy" men the brave ones far out number them.

-Ashley

p.s I have visited your blog before and I liked what I saw, but I think you are so far off on this.

6:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pray. Pray. And then pray some more to ask your gracious and loving heavenly Father why you are so quick to point fingers before you could possibly know even a part of the whole story. God wants to give you His heart.

Martha

8:34 PM  
Blogger Pc3 said...

Cara I think you are dead on right.

Your point was not that no man at all showed any bravery that day but that in another era men would have died as they rushed the killer.

There was no T.R. to lead a charge among the students.

There sadly have been no tales of unarmed men running into harm's way to protect the ladies.

Your post was not smug nor was it ill informed - your detractors aside. Simply stating that it was doesn't make it so.


I have followed this story as closely as anyone and I think you are spot on.

Feminism has tainted an entire generation.

Pc3

8:53 PM  
Anonymous blest said...

You point out an aspect of the story I hadn't thought of.

However, I do think we should be careful not to judge too harshly. I think it's easy to see things in our mind's eye as dramatic movie scenes where each of the characters has time to think and decide what to do. I imagine the reality was much more chaotic and messy than we can imagine. It must have been absolute terror and bedlam. We don't even know if all the young men jumping out the windows realized what the professor was doing...

As a wife of a Marine, and as a mother trying to raise manly boys, I do see your point. However, I think your judgment of the survivors is somewhat harsh. And truly, if they or their families were to stumble across this, you would only be adding insult to the trauma they've been through.

And you know, no one really knows what they will do in a situation like that until it happens.

9:11 PM  
Blogger konolia said...

I have heard similar comments...my own comment is this: We do not know enough about what happened to say this is true. Perhaps amongst the fallen are students who DID attempt to protect their fellow students.

And frankly, the survivors are going through enough right now to have to hear this sort of thing. Now is not the time to say things like this. Later, as more facts are evident, and as we have all had time to process the horror of what happened, there will be plenty of time to discuss these matters.

12:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Your point was not that no man at all showed any bravery that day but that in another era men would have died as they rushed the killer."

It is me again.

I don't see how that is the point honestly. She doesn't say anything about any other eras or give any credit to the many heroes of the day. The heroes that, as I said before, will certainly out number any men she thinks acted "wimpy" (if there even any at all).

"There sadly have been no tales of unarmed men running into harm's way to protect the ladies."

Possibly because dead men tale no tales. :/ Anyone who tried to act as such was probably killed in the act and in the panic no one either noticed or has chosen not to go to the media their stories.

I agree with Konolia. I also believe that until we know otherwise, we should give them the benefit of the doubt- as you would want someone to give you.

-Ashley

2:30 PM  
Blogger Spunky said...

I too came here from Kim C's blog and I would ask one question to you...

"How do you know there were no brave young men?"

Rather than be hasty and dismiss what you may know that I do not, please support your assertion with evidence.

I look forward to reading and learning.

Blessings,

3:40 PM  
Blogger Miss Seanna Hollinger said...

Cara,

Thanks for posting the article about the Israeli professor. It is really good to read about the hero's that still exist among us. The whole situation is so sad.

I have no doubt that any of the men in your family would give up their lives to protect others. That is a wonderful thing and something you can be proud of. It's great to see a daughter and sister with so much confidence in her Father and brothers. Not everyone can say that about their family.

4:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I have been thinking about your commentary the Apostle Peter comes to mind.

He promised Jesus that he would never deny Him, yet when his life was at stake, he did. Three times.

I think it is easy when we are not in danger of losing our lives to proclaim how brave we would be in the face of death.

My dh with his vast experience in law enforcement disagrees completely with the reasoning that in the timeframe and locale that this man could have been taken down.

There very well may be those who tried , but they were gunned down quickly. At this point we simply don't know.

While you are bemoaning the loss of chivalry, I am mourning the loss of Christian Charity.

Please let's give those who have lost their lives the benefit of the doubt.

5:13 PM  
Anonymous Spunky said...

Interestingly, I had just clicked away from your blog and read a headline about a girl who survived both the Columbine shooting (she was in the cafeteria) and was also a student at VT the day of the tragedy. While reading her story on the Today show website I noticed the headline, "Va. Tech hero: 'We were just sitting ducks'

Like you, I had not heard about any hero except the older professor who was dead. But the pronoun "we" caught my attention. Were there others? Curious, I clicked over to see what bravery that were talking about.

Quoting from the story, "Zach Petkewicz is one of the heroes, but when the shooting started, his first reaction was fear."

While is first reaction was fear, his final actions were pure courage. Read the whole story. It is similar to that of the professor.

I do hope he never stumbles upon your blog only to see that his heroic actions have gone unnoticed. I would encourage you to ammend the post to include the story of the story of the young man, Zach Petkewicz. who when tested had the courage to answer the cries of those in the classroom next door with conviction and bravery and courage. Thankfully, in his case it didn't end in self-sacrifice but triumph. But that does not make him any less of a hero in my book.

Here is the link to the story

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18172035/

5:13 PM  
Anonymous Spunky said...

Anonymous said in the comment above my last one, "I think it is easy when we are not in danger of losing our lives to proclaim how brave we would be in the face of death."

Your comment closely mirrors that of the brave young man I wrote about who when asked by Matt Lauer (quoting from the article), "if he could have predicted before the shooting how he would have reacted. The young hero, whose first reaction had been paralyzing fear, said that’s not possible for anyone.

"There’s no way of telling what I would have done until you’re put in that situation," he said.

As humble as he is courageous. I admire this young man tremendously.

5:20 PM  
Blogger The Horn Family said...

Thank you for the criticism. I have read the comments, thought deeply through the issue, re-read my post, and talked again with family members. Upon further reflection, I see how a lack of clearly communicating the full extent of my thoughts might have caused problems. My intention was not to say that all men failed to rise to the challenge and sacrificially protect others, but that it was not the general reaction.

If you read the story about the Israeli professor, you will see the unashamed admittance of young men who told their tale of jumping out of the window while watching the 77 year-old man hold the door. My dad would call that wimpy.

Spunky, thanks for the link to Zach’s story. It was refreshing to read of a young man who responded to the threats of the gunman.

The facts, as we know them, are this: there was no swarm of young men rushing into the halls to charge and apprehend the gunman. The point I intended to communicate was that in years gone by men were taught to run towards the attacker, not away from him. If that is what happened, if a group of guys did all they could with the intent of stopping this crazed gunman at the risk of their own lives, then I would very joyfully say my initial reaction was wrong. I am not afraid or unwilling to admit I am wrong when appropriate, but unfortunately I believe such is not the case with this matter.

This was a horrible tragedy that caused the senseless deaths of many. Throughout the news media and blogosphere, many are commenting on all the aspects of this tragedy, but my few words were only meant to touch upon one part of this sad story. I in no way wished or wish to belittle the suffering of those who lost loved ones.

6:44 PM  
Anonymous Spunky said...

So what exactly was your intention with this post, I'm a little confused? Was the point to correct or rebuke America or the "wimpy" men" for not swarming the halls or the attacker? Is that the only way a man can show his bravery in the face of adversity otherwise we are to label him a wimpy and lacking in courage?

And if that is your stanard of bravery, I would ask based on what evidence do you know that this is the case at VT?

Just as you did not know about the bravery of the young man in the story I mentioned, could there possibly be other things about this horrific tragedy that you and I may also not know?

I'm not asking you to admit a wrong, or anything of the sort. But just as evaluated the men of VT and found them lacking, I find this post lacking as well. Specifically, in the willingness to wait until the facts of this tragedy are fully known to ensure that "initial reactions" are indeed trustworthy and true.

The initial reaction of the heroic young man in the classroom was fear. But after more evaluation, he realized his intial reaction was not the best judgment to make and altered his behavior accordingly. May we all be as wise and as brave.

7:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The facts, as we know them, are this: there was no swarm of young men rushing into the halls to charge and apprehend the gunman. "

So in order for them not to be "wimpy" they would have all had to ban together, while being shot at, and swarm this guy? During the shots, the screams, and the dead bodies of classmates you wanted them organize themselves and attack?

These weren't Marines here, they were mostly young college students. You are expecting something that, if you really think about it, doesn't make a lot of sense.

"you will see the unashamed admittance of young men who told their tale of jumping out of the window while watching the 77 year-old man hold the door. My dad would call that wimpy. "

So the young people should have died in his place? A young life is worth less than an old life? A life is a life. He gave his so others can live. Being 77 is irrelevant.

-Ashley

4:44 AM  
Blogger Becky said...

I find your post terribly distasteful, irrelevant and unnecessary. We were not in that classroom. How could we suppose to know what we or others would do when faced with a gunman who is blowing away anyone in sight. Can't you imagine the surprise, fear and panic in these young hearts? It was over before anyone could comprehend what was happening. Your post hinted to these young men as being "cowards". I don't judge them. I feel for the lives lost and know the grief their parents are going through. I have been there with the death of my adolescent son. This is not the time to subject others to this "No Jumping From Windows" topic. There is mouring to be done, lives remembered, and funerals. May the grace and lives of those lost be on our minds...not your lack of compassion, grief and respect.

7:05 AM  
Blogger Grafted Branch said...

Wow. You are one brave lady to write that down in black and white.

I feel like all the blood is rushing away from my extremities at the mere thought of running with such a conjecture. You have no idea what happened in those rooms or the halls or the stairwells.

And as much as you like to think you know, you don't know what you or yours would do in that moment. Moments like that happen quickly. You sound a bit like the Pharisee who went to the temple to thank the Lord that He didn't make him like those wicked sinners.

I'll just stay in the back of the temple beating my chest, begging the Lord's forgiveness because my sin is ever before me.

7:49 AM  
Blogger Country Victorian said...

Dear Cara,

It is amazing to see you being accused of so many things that you are not. Do you find it a bit surprising that those branding you as misinformed, judgmental and lacking in perspective may have done so themselves?

Though I do try to discern their misunderstanding of your motives,
it is just that. Many totally missed your understanding of the situation.

You apprehend as we do, that many young men "are not trained" at a young age to place "women and children first". This philoso-tree has many branches and yes, feminism is one of them~ as men are chastised for any attempt in the protection of women. Which clearly is not the only issue.

This was not to say that no other sign or initiative took place by the men of V.T. to secure others. Nor was that to say no heroines were present.

For we know that trained professionals have been so well instructed that auto pilot will kick in during emergencies. It appears there may also have been those who made efforts like the brave young man in the link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18172035/ who saved so many lives with his timely decision. Yet still, that is not what you were talking about.

Neither did you mean to imply your father or brother would have apprehended the violent attacker with a one, two punch and taken care of it themselves.

Those who believe in the principle of "Women and Children First", drilling their sons at boyhood in the disciplines of instant preparedness, ingraining their character to such a degree, frequently produces men like Todd Beamer who automatically go down fighting.

Fear, self preservation and confusion can be overcome by such disciplines. Look at the men of the Titanic. They were fathers and sons of every level of society who did not necessarily have a police, firefighting or military background. What was different?
It was the majority of the men under great duress, with a real way out, who set aside their own self- preservation,laying their lives down for the sake of the women and children aboard.

Perhaps with further study these fine people who are so concerned with your article will begin to understand your meaning and exhortations.

We know you personally. You are a caring, compassionate, deeply understanding individual. You made it clear how grieved you were over the loss of lives and sorrow for the families involved.

Yours was a statement about our society in general not a cruel slander against outstanding families and their children.

You are extremely mature and are a godly woman of impeccable character.

If concerned others really took the time to ask (like one of your insightful readers did) to perceive the meaning of your statements, perhaps things would become clearer.

We love you Cara and are with you!

Mrs. Brian Hollinger

3:15 PM  
Blogger kalipay said...

Mrs. Hollinger, my eyes tear as I read your words. Thank you for very clear analysis and defense of our dear friend.

4:28 PM  
Anonymous Spunky said...

Mrs. Hollinger with all due respect to you and your friendship with Mrs. Horn I think you might have things a little confused and possibly backwards.

It is Mrs. Horn who has made a very strong accusation against the nobility and character of the students of Virginia Tech. She has called them wimps and said that their lack of self-sacrifice was "even more troubling than that heinous crime."

Their crime of cowardice was more troubling than Cho's actions? Think about that charge for a moment. That is a SERIOUS charge to make for anyone, let alone someone not directly involved in the investigation. And one we should not go unchallenged. Perhaps that may explain some of the indigation you read in the comments.

How does Mrs. Horn know this? I have repeatedly ask for evidenced to support her assertions and have been met with silence.

Sadly, that is the same silence we get when we ask the men who died on Monday to tell us about the events on the day of their death.

While I think it is wonderful that Mrs. Horn holds up the men of old and the standard of "women and children first" and that her sons would act differently, she provides nothing to say that the men who died were any less noble.

Until she can provide evidence to the contrary, why assume the worst and attack the character of men who can no longer speak for themselves? In fact, why assume anything at all? It is not necessary.

The facts will come out over time. And if the facts point toward cowardice, with all respect to the Horn family and their valor, I do hope we see the sons of Mrs. Horn make the charge of cowardice towards the students and not their mother.

4:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We must all bare in mind, that Cara is actually a very young woman, whom I believe is only 19 years of age.

Although, I do not agree with her at all, we must acknowledge that these comments were made by merely a child.

Cara must remember that the victims she deems as wimpy are also still children.

5:56 PM  
Anonymous Spunky said...

Cara, if anonymous is indeed correct and you are indeed "Miss" Horn, I apologize for my wrong assumption. I would amend my post accordingly and alter the final paragraph to say,

"The facts will come out over time. And if the facts point toward cowardice, with all respect to the Horn family and their valor, I do hope we see the men of the Horn family make the charge of cowardice towards the students and not their women.

6:46 PM  
Blogger Wingman said...

Good post Cara. I too was outraged by the cowardice shown, not in every case, but still in multiple cases. As a guy who aims to be a true man and to serve and protect women and children and elderly this cuts me deeply. Why did only one or a few guys attempt to overcome this attacker? Why were full-grown males jumping out of windows and imitating opossums? Why were there accounts of the gunman reloading his weapons three times told by guys who were hiding under desks unscathed. Cowering against a wall while a gunman is firing bullets and awaiting the seemingly inevitable bullet is cowardice when the same waiting could be taken actively in trying to overcome the gunman and still presumably receiving the same bullet for a good cause. But this pales compared to the accounts of cowering and waiting while the gunman reloads his weapon! I will cease my ranting before I say something less generous and give my full opinion.

But Cara, I am glad that there are women out there such as yourself who recognize this shortcoming and who encourage the men they know to aim for the higher goal. May you continue to encourage us to imitate Christ, who loved the church and game himself up for her.

-the wingman

7:12 PM  
Anonymous Spunky said...

We ALL have shortcomings NOT just the young students who were gripped with fear on Monday morning and coward under desks due to the real threat they faced.

But I guess we are to believe are different and would behave differently. That while they were cowards you seek to be a "true man" and would storm the attacker. I am glad to hear it. Then start right now. Be brave enough to use a real name. Bloggers such as yourself, seeking to try dead students for their "crime of cowardice" in a trial over the internet using an alias like "wingman" is not a display of bravery. It is cowardice and a run for cover in the same way that you claim the young men coward under cover in the classroom.

Like you, I believe in true manhood. And part of my belief about manhood is that real men would stand up to a gunman if possible and risk their own lives to save the women and the children. I also have another belief about manhood, and that is that real men stand behind the words they speak and don't cowar behind aliases for protection. What is to fear on the internet? Could it be anymore worrisome than an armed gunman?

As for me, I have no interest in trying a dead man for his alleged crime of cowardice. Each man and woman who died that day has received his judgment. Let the families mourn without having to endure the internet accusations of those who think they know better what bravery should look like.

Oh, by the way in case you believe that I too am using an alias, I don't. Spunky has been my nickname for over 20 years. My real name is Karen Braun and I provide that information along with the email address to contact me on my blog. Can you at least do the same?

Until then, it is best not to lecture young men who when faced with a mad gunman choose to hide under the cover of the desks.

If my words sound harsh, they are not. They are to challenge each of us to examine our own words and actions before making accusations of cowardice toward another.

8:45 PM  
Blogger Spunky said...

My blog addy for some reason is not showing up as a link in the comments, let me try again. But if it doesn't work you can verify my words and their author by going to

www.spunkyhomeschool.blogspot.com

8:46 PM  
Blogger Wingman said...

woman, youre barking up the wrong tree. I could reciprocate with a scathing rebuke, but I will not.

note that at the beginning of my post you will see my name, wingman, hyperlinked to my blogger profile, from which you can also be linked to my blog. you can also find one of my email addresses there.

so that I can be seen to be above reproach, wingman is a nickname, and a legitimate one, one being had now for 3 years and recognizable to readers of this blog as well as the author of the post to which I commented.

I do not speak from ignorance. I grew up in Africa and have had guns pointed at me and expected to die then. but God in His mercy spared me.

in the future, if you wish to attack someone, ensure that your accusations are factual. better yet, do not go the easy route and try to undermine their credibility, but rather do the harder, more effective, more edifying thing, and address their actual words.

and perhaps make an attempt to be courteous. men are much more willing to help ladies in distress

11:06 PM  
Blogger Spunky said...

JOn (Wingman) I humbly ask your forgiveness for my mistake.

I looked on your blog multiple times and all I found was a reference to your first name of Jon. That was used by a commenter. I missed the additional information when I looked on your profile. But it was very obviously there when I looked today. It must be my over 40 year old eyes playing tricks on me. My apologies. I do now see that your name and email is provided to a jonathon walters. I would humbly ask that you forgive me, Jon for falsely accusing you of not identifying yourself. Thankfully, you are alive and able to defend your good name and your honor.

Without all the facts I took the initial information I found, missed something important even though I looked directly at that corner, and came to a wrong conclusion. For which I am truly sorry.

But my mistake actually serves a useful purpose. It was very easy for me, even with the facts staring me right in the face, to miss something and come to a wrong conclusion.

How much more so when the facts are not fully known and indeed may never be revealed this side of heaven?

Unfortunately, in the case of Cara's accusation to the dead students of Virginia Tech they are not able to rise from the grave to defend their good name and give an account of what they did and defend their good name as you were able to do with me. They are not able to speak for themselves.

Don't these young men deserve the dignity of dying without those of us alive attacking their manhood without all the facts, some of which may be staring us right in the face? As I have obviously pointed out, mistakes and wrong conclusions are easy to make.

Cara, provided no evidence (and still hasn't) for her assertion that the dead students did so unwilling to sacrifice themselves for others.

Jon, Thank you for setting me straight on your good name. And allowing me to humbly learn from my own advise, to consider our words carefully.

I hope those who attack the dead will consider the good names of those who are no longer able to defend themselves. A lack of self-sacrifice for which Cara in this post considered more troubling that the heinous crime committed by Cho. The grieving families deserve to bury their dead in peace without additionaly hurt and humiliation being upon them.

6:39 AM  
Blogger Wingman said...

if you wish to discuss this with me, then let us take it somewhere else

8:46 AM  
Blogger Spunky said...

Jon, I am sorry but I don't engage in private conversations over the internet. I keep my comments public as a way of keeping myself accountable for the words that I speak, just as you have rightly done here.

I thank you for your timely rebuke and correcting my erroroneous assumption. Since I made the accusation on this blog based on your comment here, I would humbly ask here, in front of the same readers and hostess for your forgiveness as well. In doing so, all who may read here will see that Christians who make mistakes or speak in haste are willing to humbly confess and find forgiveness in fellow believers. It is my earnest prayer that you will forgive me, and that we can part as friends and fellow believers in Christ.

10:23 AM  
Blogger Spunky said...

Cara, here is another report of bravery displayed by a young man Derek O'Dell who had already been hit by Cho. This account is in addition to the Professor you mentioned and the one I previously posted about Zach.

"In Elementary German, Room 207, students had heard noise outside, but dismissed it as construction racket. The door was closed. Mr. Cho opened it, and before it hit the doorstop, he was firing.

“There was emptiness in his eyes,” said Derek O’Dell, a sophomore. “He was like a stone.”

He shot Christopher J. Bishop, the teacher, then turned on the class. Students dropped to the floor, jostling for cover. The gunfire continued — 10, 20, maybe 30 shots. The volley covered little more than a minute, but it felt like much longer.

Mr. O’Dell was hit in the right arm. “I was under my desk,” he said. “Then I started belly crawling military-style to the back of the room, while he was firing, and hid under another desk.”

Kevin Sterne, 21, a senior, was shot twice in the thigh, his femur artery ruptured. Drawing on his knowledge as an Eagle Scout, he snatched an electrical cord and wrapped it fast around his leg, stanching the bleeding and saving his life.

Five were dead and most of the others wounded. The four or five who had not been hit lay still on the floor, feigning death to live. There was no hope of escaping through windows here, not on this side of the hallway. Only the bottoms of the windows opened, with a crank, and the opening was too slim. There was no lawn below, just concrete. One student cranked open a window and began screaming for help.

The survivors heard gunfire ringing in another classroom. Trey Perkins feared the killer would return and finish them off: “I told people that were still up and conscious, ‘Just be quiet because we don’t want him to think there are people in here because he’ll come back in.’ ”

Using his belt as a tourniquet, Mr. O’Dell stopped the bleeding in his arm and then leap-frogged across a half-dozen desks to the front of the room. He slammed the door shut and barricaded it with his foot, leaning against the blackboard to avoid shots coming through the door. Two classmates propped their feet against the door. The others tried shoving the podium over, but it was bolted to the floor.

Sure enough, the gunman returned. He got the door open an inch, before the students shut it again. He squeezed off half a dozen shots into the door, and left.


A wounded man with the presence of mind to leap frog desks to barricade the door clearly is displaying courage in the face of terror.

The same article tells that most of the episodes occured in a minute or less. Said one of the students who was shot but not killed in Professor Librescu's class said, "Oddly, in all the mayhem, there were no screams. “There was no time for it,” Mr. Webster said. “It all happened so quickly.”

Clearly, that is a young man of the caliber of Todd Beamer. And keep in mind the total slaughter of the 30 people occured, according to the article, in a matter of minutes. Todd Beamer had quite a bit more time to pray and consider the situation.

Again I ask Cara, does it have to be a "group of guys" swarming the attacker before we see that there are still brave self-sacrificing men in America? Men like Derek who my grandfather would NOT call wimps at all.

2:36 PM  
Blogger Spunky said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2:39 PM  
Blogger Wingman said...

where no offense has been taken there is no forgiveness needed to be given. :)

however, if you wish to argue with me about this topic we can take it elsewhere. your argument with Cara is done. elsewhere can certainly be a public place such as my blog comments section. the fact is that you have quite misunderstood and insulted the young woman whos blog we now overun. I would not suffer you to continue doing so.

10:12 PM  
Blogger Spunky said...

Thank you for your kind offer Jon, but I will decline. And I'm glad to know that I did not offend you as well and that we will part as friends in Christ. :)

To the point about Cara, thank you for your thoughts about her current feelings. However, since she has not expressed to me any feelings of being insulted by my words, I will not assume that she has such feelings. I have made the mistake of assuming something here and been found wrong, I would hate to make the same mistake with Cara. :)

Thank you again, Jon, for not taking up an offense. :)

5:27 AM  
Blogger Wingman said...

I did not say she had taken offense, only that you were missunderstanding her and insulting her.

I am done here. I would be glad to discuss elsewhere.

12:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting Article..

Heroes of the VT Massacre

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/23/vatech.heroes/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

4:28 PM  
Anonymous The Seargeant Family said...

Dear Cara and Family,

You are not the only ones making this observation. Our family discussed this very question, in regards to 76 year old professor, Liviu Librescu, being the one to die with honor and valor while other viral young men jumped. This is not to diminish the heroism of others in other classrooms/areas. Zach Petkewicz is an example of a courageous young man who risked his life to save lives. Cara's point is that our country is lacking men like Zach who did something to thwart the killer in spite of his fear - not run from him.

We also discussed Todd Beamer and team that acted as men and changed the course of that plane saving untold numbers of other lives that day. They went down, but they went down with honor as heroes. They were not passive.

Yes, every situation is different. Yes, we don't know for certain how we will act if confronted with a similar situation. But, we can prepare ourselves ahead of time to know how we should act and ask God to give us the ability to rise to the call, should we ever receive that call. And, we can understand the sovereignty and providence of God and know that should we ever be faced with a similar situation, we are there "for such a time as this." We can act and trust God to take us home in acts of valor or protect us in order to leave us for further work as He wills it.

Peter failed his initial test. But, he repented and learned from that test and later prevailed. So, while we do not know until we are in a situation how we will respond, we should see these situations as real possibilities and prepare ourselves and our families as to how we should respond. If we do not do that, our initial reaction will be fear and we will be overcome by fear and evil. If we do prepare ourselves, our initial reaction will be fear and through the grace of God, we will overcome that fear and not go down passively.

Some in the mainstream media are also making this same observation. Cara, you are not alone.

I refer you to www.foxnews.com - Confronting Evil video - Neil Cavuto interviewing Mark Stein, author of "America Alone." Also, http://www.humanevents.com/rightangle/index.php?id=22093&title=where_were_the_men

Thank you, Mrs. Hollinger, Seanna and Wingman for your well-written posts. Thank you, Cara, for your courage and insight into this snapshot of our society and one of the results of feminism. You are not alone in thinking that we need men of courage who will stand in the face of evil and not passively run from it. Men like Mr. Librescu and Mr. Petkewicz. Thank you Mr. Librescu and Mr. Petkewicz for your heroism and your willingness to lay down your lives for others.

In Him,
The Seargeant Family

5:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cara,

This may be a bit off topic from the subject, but it is tangential. As a Christian, a woman, and graduate student, I'm a little taken back by the position you've put women in.

I don't see how placing limitations on women's lives accomplishes what we're here to do. And I don't think that feminism is an entirely bad thing. Extremes, as with anything, are bad. And limiting ourselves to being housewives is just another extreme.

And I'm not against staying at home and being a support. My mother did, and when I have children I want to be there while they grow up, but I want more. And to tell half of the population that they there place is cooking and raising children isn't right. I think that God wants more for us. Our husbands should want more for us.

And as for VT, I think that we can't point at the situation as if it is black and white. There's countless stories we'll never hear, things we can't possibly know. And to judge isn't what we're here for. In fact, I can't recall the verse, but doesn't the Bible say that we'll be judged by how we judge others?

10:11 AM  
Blogger The Horn Family said...

Greetings,
As Cara's father, I would like to offer a few comments before bringing this matter to a close. First, Cara had my blessing on the content of her post, so if one has an objection, I am responsible, not her. Second, it should be remembered that the intended audience of her post was not the victims and their families, but all of us who can benefit from thinking through what should be the appropriate response in such circumstances. Also, be aware that the comments came from a young woman's heart who is grieved by a culture where more focus is placed on being metrosexual than manly.
Obviously, all do not agree with the positions shared. Praise God that we can share our opinions;may we always do so with a right heart. So that we do not violate the principle of Prov. 10:19, this will be the end of the discussion of this suject on this blog.

Jeff Horn

6:17 PM  

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